Dear Tom McMahon,
I watched with great dismay the Livestream from the August 2015 Berean Call Conference where Paul Wilkinson “critiqued” the newly released video by Joe Schimmel, “Left Behind or Led Astray: Examining The Origins of the Secret Pretrib Rapture.”
I put the word critiqued in quotes because it was anything but a critique of the video itself. Instead it was a personal attack on the character of Joe Schimmel and the others that contributed to the production of the video.
I know that you and Joe Schimmel have known each other for a very long time and have even collaborated together. Joe and I have been good friends for nearly 30 years and I remember yours and Dave Hunt’s association with him going back that entire time. In all that time he has never been subjected to public character assasination by the Berean Call. This despite the fact that you have always known that Joe subscribes to a post-tribulational position just like the late Dr. Walter Martin who to my knowledge was never disparaged by the Berean Call. While post-tribulationism is not the majority view among evangelicals, it is certainly not a heretical position as Paul Wilkinson claims, and it had never become an occasion to question Joe’s character until now. Why now? Because he had the audacity to defend what he believes about the end-times?
I have always been a huge fan of your ministry for the last 30 years, but all you could say in Joe’s defense when you had the opportunity was to say that you knew him and counted him as a brother. If that is true, how could you just sit there and allow Paul Wilkinson to make these unsubstantiated and personal accusations against Joe and not come to his defense? Is that what a brother does?
Among the accusations that Paul Wilkinson made in the Livestream, here are a few of the most egregious:
…This DVD is damaging, its destructive, its dangerous, and it is thoroughly dishonest. And it is one of the most abominable Christian DVDs I’ve ever sat through…
…The post-tribulation belief that Joe Schimmel espouses, Joel Richardson, the pre-wrath view Jacob Prasch espouses. These are heretical views. To teach that the Church is going to go through any part of the tribulation period is an abominable thing to teach. Because it robs believers of the blessedness of the blessed hope. It doesn’t fill believers with joy and expectancy and longing. It fills them with fear, it fills them with a kind of millitancy that they’ve got to stand against the antchrist, that they’ve got to face the mark of the beast. I’ve spoken at Churches in England where people have been fear wondering how the’re going to get through the tribulation, how their children are going to get through the tribulation. Will they be strong enough to resist the mark of the beast when it comes? Praise God the Lord uses many of us to bring freedom and release from that kind of teaching…
…The Spirit and the Bride say come! Joe Schimmel and those alongside him who are involved in that production; that’s not what’s coming out of their hearts. That’s not what you’re hearing throughout this documentary. Its all about what we must do in readiness, not for the Lord Jesus Christ, but for the antichrist. And its a terrible deception. And it puts fear in people, creates confusion, robs the bride of Christ in part of her joy, takes, steals the hope of the blessed hope, and causes ultimately many in the Church not to be ready for that most glorious day…
…You will not hear these men talk about their love for Jesus. You’ll not see the tears fall down their cheeks. They will speak of the coming of the Lord, very academically and very intellectually, but where’s the heart? Where’s the love? Where’s the longing? It’s not there. And one of the reasons it’s not there is because they’re not pastors. They’ve not been called to take care of the flock. They’ve not been called to help prepare the bride for the Bridegroom…
Do you agree with these accusations? Do you really believe that Joe’s position on the second coming is heretical, academic and devoid of love? That he is not really a pastor? Do you believe that Joe Schimmel is dishonest? If not, why didn’t you say so when you had the opportunity? All that Joe Schimmel, Jacob Prasch and Joel Richardson have done is to encourage the body of Christ to do the same thing that you are asking them to do; be Bereans. And if we disagree on the timing of the rapture for scriptural reasons, does that justify these kinds of personal attacks?
I’m asking you in the name of the Lord Jesus to publically apologize to Joe Schimmel, Jacob Prasch and Joel Richardson for allowing these hateful personal attacks go unchallenged at your conference. I hope in the future that the Berean Call will limit it’s criticism of post-tribulationism to the merits of the scriptural arguments rather than vilifying the messenger, particularly one that you know so well.
When I was first born again in 1985, I was caught up in the Word-Faith movement because that is what was taught in the Church where I was saved. I was told by well-meaning Christians at the time not to read yours and Dave Hunt’s book “The Seduction of Christianity,” because if I did, I was told it would ruin my faith. I’m glad now that I did not take that advice. Remember when “Seduction” first came out? Remember all the personal attacks that you and Dave Hunt endured from Charisma Magazine, TBN personalities and more? Remember “Seduction?? A Biblical Response?” I encourage people to watch “Left Behind or Led Astray” then be a Berean and test it according to the word of God.
Sincerely,
Scott Pruitt
I will be posting this as an open letter on my website nopretrib.com and my Facebook page facebook.com/nopretrib along with links to the Livestream where these quotes were given and to leftbehindorledastray.com. I will also send a copy of this letter to Joe Schimmel.
The problem with these Pre-Trib/Dispensational zealots is that these issues go well beyond the technical argument of Rapture timing, touching on Soteriology and even Inerrancy of Scripture. Point A: many dispensationalists claim that there are different rules of salvation in each Dispensation, salvation by grace in the Church Age, salvation by works before this! Point B: Dr Thomas Ice and others, claims that the Greek word APOSTASIA ( in 2 Thess. 2:3 ) does not mean “falling away” but actually means raptured!! Thus every new English version of the Bible ( such as KJV or NIV ) is mistranslated. If this is correct we are in big trouble, most Christians have neither the time nor the acumen to learn to read Koine Greek at the scholarly level of a translator ( never mind Hebrew and Textual Criticism ). Therefore I infer that inerrancy of scripture must also apply to modern language translations.
When and where have I ever called the Gypsy movement “cultic”. Unless he is indeed the liar he appears rot be,
I challenge Gavin PotTer to bring his proof.
Mr. Potter can denounce the views of Joe Schimmel and others as ‘rubbish’, but does not from the scriptures present
any exegetical case as to why.
This man is dishonest. When such sad people cannot address the issues, they take the ad hominem approach and engage in lying
and character assassination, yet oddly profess to be Christians.
Be careful… when you bite and devour one another lest you be consumed one of the other.
Hello Nancy, thank you for your comment, I appreciate your concern. The verse you are quoting is Galatians 5:15, in which Paul is chastising the Galatians because they they had abandoned the Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf in order to justify themselves according to the works of the law. Paul here is speaking to those who have been taken captive by false teaching and in doing so were walking in the flesh and not in the love of Christ. The context here is demonstrates that false teaching leads to an abandonment of the love of Christ. In my letter to Tom MacMahon, I am pointing out that very thing. That someone he has called a brother for 30 years is now the object of character assassination because Joe Schimmel publically exposed the history of the the development of the pretrib rapture, and proved it to be a false doctrine in his video Left Behind Or Led Astray.
While there is in a general sense a legitimate need to be aware of our propensity in the flesh to bite and devour one another. That is not what is happening in this case, at least as far as myself or Joe Schimmel are concerned. Instead we are following Paul’s advice to Timothy which by the inspiration of Holy Spirit said, “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.” 2 Tim 4:1-4 I do not see how it is possible to obey this passage of scripture without being somewhat confrontational.
I am indeed not a believer in the myth of a pre tribe rapture . The false assertion by Gavin Potter however that I ever described the Gypsy Movement as “cultic” is a straight out lie. Gavin Potter is a bearer of false witness. He may disagree with my Intra Seal view but that does not give him a license to slander.
JJ Prasch
Moriel
I will add my only comment– Absolute rubbish!! I respect the ministry of Bro Prasch- But disagree vehemently with his made up nonsense prewrath view- This has caused a major division between Prasch and the gypsy movement– He has called them cultic- Its caused much harm– and prewrath is totally unbiblical and nonsense and as for left behind or lead astray Its propoganda nothing more and nothing less Rubbish good for the waste paper basket as this article is and the comments!
I agree with the comments regarding Isis. The idea that Isis does not come near the gravity of the great tribulation is plainly insensitive to what Christians are experiencing in the Middle East. At the end of the day it matters not whether you are beheaded by Isis or by Anti-Christ you are still beheaded either way. What if major persecution, on a par with what Isis is doing, comes to the UK, US etc even before Daniel’s 70th week? How will Paul’s arguments help believers go through that time? Don’t the same questions that those worried believers ask about the great tribulation apply to any major persecution? Jesus spoke of persecution for a reason? The apostles wrote of persecution for a reason? The questions people are asking from fear do not concern the timing of the great Tribulation but the idea of martyrdom. And a church that does not prepare its members for the idea of martyrdom, whether pre-, mid, or post tribulation martyrdom, in whatever form that persecution takes is not only unwise but ironically diminishing people’s blessed hope. For they rob those who die of the blessed hope by tying the blessed hope to the rapture alone and not to the resurrection also.
I know Paul Wilkinson personally. I note his desire and agree with him that we need to keep focus on Jesus’ return. We need to long for it and have a sense of imminency. But Paul’s zeal for imminency and appreciation of it does not equal that of the late Art Katz who was post tribulational. The idea that one needs to be pre-trib or else one is not waiting for Jesus and not going to be ready for the rapture is as erroneous as the claim that those who are pre-trib cannot be ready for persecution. I believe the late Dave Hunt was very aware that western Christians could experience Islamic persecution and martyrdom though he was pre-trib.
Excellent comment Salvador! Thank you.
Scott Pruitt, I agree with every single point you made. I don’t recall anyone jumping in front of the saints who were beheaded the past few months saying, “Hey wait ISIS, this is the bride of Christ and if you behead her you will cause fear and militancy and she’ll be worried about her children, and she won’t have any joy and expectancy and longing and she won’t have the blessed hope if she goes through this persecution and tribulation, so knock it off ISIS, cause this isn’t what I want the bible to say, this doesn’t go along with my belief.” If I was one of those thousands of saints who got their heads cut off or got thrown in prison this summer, I wouldn’t want to be told that I would never suffer tribulation, I would want to be prepared to suffer persecution, and have my lamp full of oil and be prayed up and studied up in the word, and ready when the tribulation that the Lord promises will come, comes. A sermon like Paul Wilkinson just preached wouldn’t do me a hill of beans bit of good, but hearing about getting oil in my lamp and being ready because the faithful church will go through the tribulation; well when I’m bowed down with my knees in the sand and a knife at my throat, having been prepared beforehand by faithful men of God who preach the truth, that would actually help me and I would be saying, “And they overcame him by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death, and …Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer, I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you and you will suffer persecution for 10 days, be faithful unto death and I’ll give you your life as a victors crown”….. Where is the blessed hope for those thousands who have gotten their heads cut off by ISIS in the Middle East and Africa? What would the pretribbers tell these precious saints about how they need not fear, that they have the blessed hope and so they won’t suffer tribulation? No, the answer is that they don’t have to fear the tribulation because they do have the blessed hope, those precious saints had and have the blessed hope, because our blessed hope is Jesus Christ, and our knowledge that He will never leave us or forsake us no matter what we have to suffer for His names sake. “In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world, and if they hated me (Jesus) they’re gonna hate you too.”. I’m starting to think that this pretrib teaching is just an extension of the word faith name it and claim it teaching, where you pick and choose what you want to believe in Gods word. I have never in my life seen three brothers who had more of a passion and love and urgency for the word of God than Jacob Prasch and Joe Schimmel, and Joel Richardson. To say otherwise is to speak a lie. I have never seen a man of God with more integrity than Jacob Prasch. I’ve seen a lot of shocking and evil things this summer; the White House lit up in rainbow colors to celebrate an abomination, innocent little babies delivered alive and then their brains are plucked out of their heads while their hearts are still beating, Christians being fined and jailed for believing the bible, Israel betrayed and radical Islam being give over a hundred billion dollars so that they can destroy the US and Israel:and seeing what should be God fearing man who know the word of God and profess to be Christians, turn on truly Godly men who are faithfully preaching the word of God, like a bunch of wolves, it is just another in a long list of unspeakable wickedness that has been witnessed this summer. The word of God says that the love of money is the root of all evil, so I’m wondering where ego, and money and stubbornness enter into this attack, and maybe jealousy. If none of you have enough courage or common sense or decency to repent of the wrong you’ve committed against these men and the body of Christ than God help you because you need it, you need to stop being men fearers and fear God, and stop being man pleasers and please God. You are not in the “He man woman haters club” like the Little Rascals, or in your case the “He man anyone who isn’t pretrib haters club”, this is peoples lives and you are called to be true to Gods word. Matthew, Mark and Luke and John, every single one say that we’re gong to be hated and put to death, but to stand firm. Why is the bible full of warnings( Matt 24:9, 23:13, 10:39 John 15:21, Mark 13:13, Luke 21:17, 6:22, 2 Cor 4:11 and that’s just a piddlin amount, there’s tons more) to endure to the end and to love not your life unto death and to be careful of false teachers if we’re just going to get whisked up out of here with no tribulation? Here’s a beautiful scripture that I’ll close with especially for Jacob Prasch, Joe Schimmel and Joel Richardson, but especially Jacob Prasch, “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil about you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad for your reward in heaven is great, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” God bless, Elizabeth W.
Hi Elizabeth,
Thank you for your support. I sympathize with the arguments you made and the passion with which you made them. However I will take issue with you on a couple of points.
First of all with respect to questioning the integrity and motives of T.A. MacMahon and the Berean Call. The ministry of the late Dave Hunt and The Berean call has done great service to the body of Christ. Back in the 1980’s they took a stand against the Christian media complex and called them out by name for the heresies they were and still are promoting on Christian television, radio, bookstores, etc. I consider it nothing short of miraculous that Harvest House publishing showed the courage to allow Dave Hunt’s watershed book The Seduction of Christianity to ever be published. I consider these people to be my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord. However they are not above reproach, and when they err, they need to be called out by the same standard that they called out others. It is my sincere hope that they all be reconciled and continue moving forward in service to Jesus.
Second, in fairness to T.A. MacMahon and the Berean call, it should be pointed out that they do not teach that Christians either are or should be exempt from suffering. They argue Christians are exempt only from that period of time that we refer to as the great tribulation which they equate with the wrath of God.
These doctrinal issues, do have very practical application, and do color our perception of God’s character, so they should be vigorously debated. But that debate should occur without character assassination from either side.
2 Tim 2:24-2 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
Gal 6:1-4 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
Eph 4:1-6 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
Pray for our brothers and sisters at the Berean Call.
I don’t see a reason to debate. We just have to wait and see. I however believe in pretrib. Post trib is pointless. Why would we be raptured after going through everything? What would be the point? God loves us his followers. He rescued Noah and his family as well as Lot and his family rather than destroy those who truly loved Him. I refuse to believe a loving God would make us suffer through all that just as the evil people. That would not be just and fair and God is just.
Mary, if you don’t want to debate, then why did you leave your comment? I will not engage in the pre vs post arguments here with you as this article is not about that. It is about how to we should air our differences without resorting to character assasination.
Well, why did Daniel go thru the den? Why did the 3 brothers go thru tnt fiery furnace? Why did Israel go thru Egypt and the red sea…40 years in desert? Why did the Jews go thru holocaust? Jonah in the fish?
Read James chapter 1 for your answer.
In fact, could you name a time when we didn’t go thru tribulation?
Both McMahon and Wilkinson should publically apologize to Schimmel, Prasch, and Richardson – period!
I don’t see these as personal attacks but the exposing those who teach false doctrine, the same way we find the Apostle Paul doing with those who said the resurrection was past and he named them. See 2 Tim 2:16-18 “But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.”
It is serious when men teach such erroneous doctrine and try to rob the believer of his Blessed Hope.
Nor does the writer of one of the letters know what he is talking about when he speaks of Newton, Darby, Muller and Spurgeon, now that is a personal attack but I won’t waste time defending the Lords own, He will do that in a coming day.
The scriptures are clear about the rapture of the church as well as clear in that the Church will be kept from the wrath to come.
Respectfully Dennis, you’re wrong about this. If you read the quotes from Paul Wilkinson, anyone reading them objectively would certainly characterize it as a personal ad-hominem attack. I’ve known Joe Schimmel for nearly 30 years, and so has Tom McMahon. Tom knows that what Paul Wilkinson said about Joe’s supposed lack of integrity was patently false. Forget about the disagreement over the timing of the rapture for a minute. Joe has not said that pre-tribulationists are heretics or cast aspersion on the character of those that hold that view. It would be nice if that worked both ways, but in most cases it does not.
As for robbing believers of the Blessed Hope, that is just flat out untrue. The Blessed Hope is and always has been the glorious appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ at His second coming. The idea that that Jesus would return twice, once to rapture the Church and later to judge the world was unheard of until the 19th century. We as Christians will begin to see and experience more of the birth pangs, the apostasy, and the revelation of antichrist (which occurs during the great tribulation), as Jesus said, “…when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” His personal and visible return is and always has been our Blessed Hope. Pre-tribulationism has perverted the Blessed Hope.
Joe has indeed called pre-tribulationists heretics. He characterizes the doctrine to have originated in demonic utterances and that Darby, in spite of the fact that they even acknowledged his skepticism, lied about when and how he came to his “understanding” of this rapture.
Basically, you can’t make this kind of charge without blatantly implying that those who follow the teaching are heretics. It implies clearly that they are following a doctrine of demons. What is that if not heresy?
Just so you know, I do not personally hold to the pre-trib dispensational teaching, so I don’t have any vested interest in defending the position.
Hello Ed,
Joe Schimmel does not imply that the followers of pre-tribulationinsm are heretics, for the most part, they are merely misled or misinformed. Most are unaware of pre-tribulationism’s realtively recent and questionable origins. Having said that, I do believe that pre-tribulational teachers like Tommy Ice, Tim Lahaye and others have done incalculable damage to the body of Christ with these false teachings all the while enriching themselves financially while marketing this ear-tickling false doctrine. The average pretrib believers are sheep, these false teachers are in my opinion are wolves.
Sadly, modern Dispensational Futurism has used the spirit of condemnation since it’s beginning.
When Plymouth Brethren leader Benjamin Newton would not accept John Nelson Darby’s “secret rapture” or Darby’s division of scripture into that for the Church and that for Israel, Darby made a personal attack upon Newton.
The same thing happened to Brethren member George Mueller.
This produced a split within the Brethren.
Mueller later said he had to make the choice between parting with his Bible or parting with Darby.
According to articles written by Baptist Charles Spurgeon, Darby considered his “Exclusive Brethren” group to be the only “true Church”.
We are seeing this same spirit of condemnation today.
If you do not like the message, then attack the messenger.
It is the reason Jeremiah was thrown into the pit.
If your Flesh likes any doctrine, it should be viewed with suspicion. Jesus saved our soul, not our mortal Flesh.
The Body of Christ should prepare for the same persecution that has tortured and murdered thousands of our Brothers and Sisters, since the day Stephen was stoned.
It is happening in other nations, now.
Joe Schimmel has spoken the truth in love.
What more could anyone ask?