Scott Pruitt and Rick Haworth stand on the Mount of Olives to discuss the second coming of Christ and the dangers of believing in a pretribulation rapture.
Dangers of Believing in Pretribulationism
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Hi Scott… I am realizing that there are a lot of folks out there that seem to have more of a rapture worship more than a worship of God. It’s horrid to see because they are apt to fall away- . What if our apostles had that attitude? It’s clinging to this world, maybe?
Does this only apply to Jews as some claim? I don’t think so.
Exactly. A long time ago, the seed was planted on loose soil for me and it blew away. It was until a half dozen years ago that I finally understood the Gospel of Christ Jesus. So, I identify pretty easily with the sower and the seeds parable…and I pray often to keep me in truth and discernment as I cling very tightly to Christ and Him crucified for our sins. Please, Scott, pray for my husband and family. They are not saved. It’s very dark sometimes realizing how much of this battle is spiritual. Talking about the weather and sports and never Jesus and politics is increasingly difficult. I’m sorry for whining a bit… I am very sad when I see some very large church pastors preaching that the deception that is taught is teaching something other than pre-trib rapture…thus making his flock prime material to fall away. Sigh.
It is so good to read Pamela’s heartfelt comments, for I believe many a believer, has been, and is in her dilemma; I know that I am! Truly, when “I finally understood the Gospel of Jesus Christ” as she says, something hit me really, really hard inside as it were! It was as though nothing else mattered any more-and it doesn’t! Like Pamela, to be surrounded by people that want to “stop their ears” Acts 7:57 is truly disheartening! As she says, they only want to talk about things of no relevance! sadly this is so true. If she could, she would “open their eyes” Acts 26:18.
If it is any comfort to her, I will pray into her situation.
God bless.
Thank you Colin… you don’t even know how much that means to me! I feel like I’m living in the strangest dream. It’s fascinating at times and horrifying at others. We all need each other more than ever. I love you and your words are a great comfort..and exactly what I needed! God bless you and yours!
Hello Scott,
I was raised in a Free Will Baptist church. The two concepts that we were taught the imminent return of Jesus Christ and of course, pre-trib rapture. It wasn’t until the mid-’90s until I was exposed to the pre-wrath theory. First, I had examined Van Kampen’s, The Sign and the Marvin Rosenthal’s, Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church. By studying the Post, Mid, and Pre-Trib against Pre-Wrath, it seemed to me that Rosenthal’s explanation of End Times was more credible by scripture.
I am sure, by taking the particular stance, puts one at odds with mainstream churches. May God continue to bless you by revealing the truth.
I am so encouraged by you!!! I know God has His reasons for allowing the blindness and only He can open blinded eyes…
Please don’t minimize the blood in OT days. That the Righteousness was only in the Service of the sacrifice of the Everlasting Covenant of the LORD found only in the blood.
Leviticus 17:11
It was for the people of GOD back in the day be they Jew or Non-Jew alike were to follow GOD and trust in His Service of the blood sacrifice through faith. This Ever Lasting Covenant of the LORD is:
‘It is Finished’
In the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus
Promised there in
Jeremiah 31:31-33
Isaiah 52:13-53:12
The Service of the Sacrifice of the Ever Lasting Covenant of the LORD in the Blood all outlined in Leviticus and Numbers. Faithful GOD did as Moses and others looked forward to.
Deut. 18:15, 18,19
Isaiah 53:12-53:12
Jeremiah 31:31-33
The Old finished in the New❣️
‘It is Finished❣️’
Now the: the false teaching of
John N Darby. He took many in the beginning with his ‘teaching’ those steeped in ‘pre-trib’ will tell us today to justify or legitimize their thought of ‘don’t worry we read the back of the book’ ‘the Jews get saved in the end’
They tell everyone DL Moody even had him preach in his pulpit’
What they don’t tell you is DL Moody forbade him after he realized he was in error on many counts.
What this ‘doctrine’ of ‘pre-trib’ and ‘election’ did Right up today is put a DAGGER in the very Heart of Jewish Evangelism. This breaks the very Heart of the LORD❤️
So it not only sows the soil of ‘falling away’ where they will faint and not be faithful to the end.
Revelation 12:11
Secondly if not first, this false teaching gives way to ‘Dual Covenant’ thinking that says Jews are saved already apart from Messiah Jesus’ Blood led by the Roman Church.
That leads the drive for the building of the Temple in our day.
All so grievious.
GOD is not going to hold these teachers guiltless.
Eze 3:18-21
Eze 33:7 , 8
Isaiah 62
We are called to give GOD’s Truth and be His watchmen❣️
Thank-you for your love for GOD’s Church and those that need Him be the Jew or Non-Jew alike❤️
This “Two Peoples of God doctrine…” as Mr Teeter rightly calls it is utterly unbiblical.
If we are agreed that “There is NONE other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12, and “He is the head of THE body” Colossians 1:18; did He then have TWO bodies? “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever”. Hebrews 13:8. He is the God of the Old Testament, as also the New.
It continues to astonish me that intelligent men cannot see through the false doctrine of pre-tribulationism, for plain and simply it is NOT taught anywhere in the Bible, yet it must be so.
As for John MacArthur, his Reformed glasses have sadly been blinded by Dispensationalism’s false pre-trib theology, he is in great error on his teaching on “the mark of the beast”. I must add that it is a great sin to speak lightly of the Reformation as many do today; think where we would be today without it? There would be no printing press, plus the technology that followed, Bibles burned, and worst still, we would be soaked up to the hilt in superstition and idolatry! (which is sadly, where many are still, or at least going back to).
Last week, I had occasion to look up a local Gospel Hall’s (Plymouth Brethren) statement of faith; it reads:
“The Lord Jesus Christ will return to the air to take His people home to heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) . No one knows when this will happen (Acts 1:7) but it is certain that it will happen. (2 Peter 3:2-11).”
WHO would disagree with this? it is entirely Biblical! However, we KNOW what they mean by His “return to the air”. Apart from the inference of this cleverly worded statement, I could find no fault with their profession; how subtle is this?
Scott,
Thanks for being willing to take a stand on an understanding of scripture held by the Church for over 1800 years.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:18-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
Let’s see, the “danger” of being ready for an imminent / any moment return of Christ is what exactly? Revelation 3:3 begs to differ.
Pete, the danger is in thinking that you won’t have to go through the great tribulation and suddenly finding yourself in the midst of it. The danger is in thinking we won’t be faced with a decision to accept or reject the mark of the beast. There are popular teachers like John MacArthur saying that a person can take the mark during the tribulation and still be saved despite what John heard in his Revelation of Jesus. Rev 14:9-13. The danger is in falling away, something that Jesus and the Apostles all warned about.
Before the rapture, there will be a great falling away. This is Paul’s admonition to the Thessalonians and by extension we upon whom the end of the ages has come. “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” That doesn’t sound like imminent/any moment to me.
So there is a danger, a danger of falling away, of taking the mark and being condemned for doing so. People expecting an any moment rapture are going to be just as unprepared to face what’s coming as the Jews and Christians in Nazi Germany were but even more so. That’s the danger. Read what Corrie Ten Boom said about how pretribulationism caused so many believers to fall away in Germany, Africa & China. That’s why false teaching is such a serious matter.
Scott, you ALL really need to read Revelation 10! I don’t know why this chapter has been so overlooked for so many centuries. Why do you all doubt Jesus’ words about our redemption & that it would be left out of the “Revelation of Jesus Christ”? Too many have focused on scripture that isn’t necessary. God made sure everything we need to know is in Revelation, even Daniel’s end time prophecy is planted in Rev 12. Jesus’ Olivet Discourse follows the same order as Revelation and includes the misinterpreted Left Behind rapture which is pertaining to the judgment of the Nations (taken away) not a rapture. So, let me be the first to inform you that there is a “rescue” (Daniel 12), “shortened” (Matt 24), “kept from time of testing” (Rev 3), “in a twinkling of an eye, at last trumpet” (1 Cor 15), “descend from heaven with a shout” (1 Thess 4), “man of sin revealed” (2 Thess 2), and “Jesus coming for the church” (Rev 10)
If you need help understanding Rev 10, please read Ezekiel 1&10, Rev 1, Daniel 10 (focus on descriptions): strong angel (cherubim of 4 archangels) – chariot for Jesus & his throne, standing on both land & sea (authority), rainbow (around throne) & clothed in cloud, loud roar, message a mystery, raising his arms to heaven & swearing to God (Daniel 12), no longer a delay (rescue), mystery of God finished (Christ).
Revelation 10 happens right at the time that Satan is thrown out of heaven in the war with Michael (Daniel 12/Rev 12) during 6 trumpets (eschatos “last trumpet” means last in point of sequence or time) and just before the resurrection of Satan’s kingdoms (Rome & Babylon). The church will endure the trumpets because it is clear in the 5th that we are still there. How could the torment specifically be on the unbeliever? The literal effects of the trumpets will be a massive volcanic eruption in the Ring of Fire. Have you been paying attention? The symbolic part of trumpets is the war in heaven. (great star Satan, mountain Satan’s kingdom, 200 mil angels). It is possible that we will see the revealing of Antichrist & even the abomination which I believe has everything to do with the Roman Catholic church. Especially after studying Daniel prophecies. It even looks like the Antichrist’s revived Roman empire will be from the English tribe (USA). Which is even more clear by the last pope mysteriously chosen from the USA also.
Hosea 5-6 tells us “I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.” (Jesus died on 4/3/33BC making 2000 years later 2033)
If you study the Sabbatical years and Feasts of God you will see that they will play a big part. In 2026 USA has presidency of G20, 2028 will be a new election, 2029 Feast of Trumpets lands on dates of 9/9-11/2029 (9/11/3BC was Jesus birth) with 30 days of trumpet blowing before and 9/9/2029 is the end of a sabbatical year, Feast of Atonement lands on 10/3/2033 exactly 49 months (days of the Omer) later with a blood moon/eclipse scheduled, there is exactly 7 months between end of tribulation & His final return. You must understand the numbers to get this part.
There is no 7 year tribulation! Daniel 9 has been misinterpreted for centuries just like Matthew 25. Daniel 9 is referring to the new covenant with Jesus (33AD) to the Jews which ended at the stoning of Stephen in 36AD and the destruction of temple (abomination) in 70AD by Rome. There is no break of 2000 years. Daniel 12 gives us the correct timeline. 30 days (trumpets leading up to Feast/rapture), 1260 days (tribulation) 1335 mystery of God finished just before the marriage of the Lamb where we are ALL in heaven. Rev 19:5-6 (souls of saints, 144k & church)
Measuring of the “temple of God” is the new believers (known as the Trib saints) who saw Jesus at the rapture & now believe. They were not yet written in the Book of Life noted in Daniel 12. (Rev 13:8/Rev 17:8) They were not selected because they did not believe without seeing. Everyone will hear & see when Jesus comes for the church. It will NOT be a quiet, secret event!!!!
Two witnesses (candlesticks) replace the church (Rev 1:20)
The 1st resurrection refers to all listed in the scripture below, the second resurrection (death) is for the unbelievers so they can be judged in White Throne & live alive in lake of fire (death). There will be a mortal remnant of jews & tribulation saints that enter Millennial kingdom to procreate. This is why it is believed it will be a literal 1000 years before Satan is released. They will be governed by the saints & church (priests of God) with a requirement to worship annually on Feast of Tabernacles because they will still have a sinful nature and so will their offspring.
First Resurrection: “And I saw thrones, and they (church) sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. THEN I saw the SOULS of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God (OT saints), and which had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands (NT/trib saints). And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Most important item always missed by post tribbers – the “Marriage of the Lamb” happens BEFORE his second coming! The church must be judged to become righteous for the marriage to the LAMB. Also, we are shown coming to earth with Jesus at his second coming & we are the ones sitting on the Thrones in the Millennium judging the OT & Trib saints. Note: they still have souls so they are NOT resurrected to their glorified bodies yet.
So it is very important as time is running out, that we all become more discerned. It took me over a year to find all this and to realize that I had been duped by so many “False prophets”. Never ever heard about Rev 10 until I took the time to be blessed for reading Rev myself. You will not find anyone online who has revealed this chapter as the redemption of the church (rapture). I believe due to many revealing’s (dreams) that it was my calling & that I came to this information divinely. So please take the time to reassess your opinion and spread the word. 2029 is coming fast and so is our Lord! As you can see, we may not know the day or hour, but we can know the season/year.
There is so much wrong with your rambling dissertation. I have no desire to refute it point-by-point. But for you to posit that you alone have unlocked the true timeline of end-time events from your so-called calling and from dreams, proves to me that you are delusional. I do not believe that the revelation given to you was in any way divine. Do you consider yourself to be a modern-day Prophet? It is far more likely that you are one of the many other false prophets. Rather than give credence to your visions, I reject them as a further fulfillment of Jesus’ word in Matt 24.
2 Theselaonians 2
It is a direct warning to those of pre trib belief. Even those of other views have called me out on this view, but let’s look at the scripture.
Verse 3 says do not be deceived. Deceived is a direct connection to not being in Christ, or falling away which is also mentioned in the verse. Now many, If not most all of pre trib also follow in OSAS or permanent salvation now, even with the hundreds of warnings stating stay the course, finish the race, and do not be disqualified. So it’s a struggle to overcome 2 wrong views.
Now back to 2 Thes 2, the warning to not be deceived is about His return and our GATHERING to Him. Buy its wrapped around this…
It will not happen until after the man of sin is revealed. This happens from among many antichrists when the true one sits in the temple proclaiming himself God, its only here one will know for sure who the antichrists is, and this is mid way through the last week of Daniel 9, the AOD
Half way mid way around the middle is what that warning is wrapped around securely, the only known event securely linked in time is this midway event.
So post trib isn’t believing they are gone before this event. So it doesn’t apply to them.
Pre wrath isn’t stating they are taken away before this event, so it doesn’t apply to them
Mid trib knows they will see this event, it’s their go to verse, so no application to them here.
Now pre trib, the ONLY group who believes they are gone before the mid way event. So therefore it is a direct warning to them to not be deceived, not having Gods truth, and falling away.
It will not be applied to any other view but pre trib because it cant be applied to any other because they all see it in their views
Pray it opens some eyes
God bless