When asked by His disciples about His second coming and the end of the age, the first thing Jesus says to His disciples is, “See to it that no one misleads you.” There are two things here that should not escape our notice. First, there is a very real possibility that believers could be misled when it comes to understanding the times and events leading to His coming. The second and equally important thing is that He does not want us to be misled in this area. So let’s establish this fact right from the beginning; its important!
Matt 24:3-4 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you.”
There’s a good reason that we warn our children not to take candy from strangers.
The Importance of warnings:
Warnings are designed to protect us from harm. When Jesus began teaching about the end of the world, the very first thing He did was issue a warning; the first of many and repeated by the other Apostles. When you look at the picture above of a stranger handing a little girl a piece of candy from his car, most of us would have a very strong emotional reaction, and rightly so. When necessary warnings are absent or go unheeded, the results can be disastrous. With this type of imagery in mind lets take a look at the warnings associated with the second coming of Christ. This is not an exhaustive or complete list, but it should suffice to convey what we need to watch out for.
- Matthew 24:3-14
- Matthew 7:21-27
- Matthew 16:24-27
- Mark 8:34-38
- Mark 13:3-13
- Luke 17:22-37
- Luke 21:25-36
- John 17:15
- 1 Corinthians 10:1-13
- 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
- 2 Timothy 4:1-4
- Titus 2:11-15
- 2 Peter 2:1-3
- 2 Peter 3:1-18
- 1 John 4:1
- Jude 1:1-25
- Revelation 1:1-3
- Revelation 22:16-19
If you did not stop to read the above referenced passages, or are not well versed and intimately familiar with them, then it is unlikely that you will be prepared for what’s coming.
End of the Age Warnings:
Here is a short list of the things we are told to be aware of and/or warned about from the above mentioned Bible references in the context of the second coming.
- Christians will be killed and hated by all nations.
- Many Christians will fall away from the faith.
- Many will betray one another.
- Many false prophets will arise and have large followings.
- Lawlessness will increase.
- Christians are commanded to endure to the end.
- The gospel will be proclaimed throughout the Earth.
- Increase of wars, famines, natural disasters, and disease.
- Antichrists will arise and the Antichrist will be revealed.
- People will not expect coming judgment.
- Christians are warned to look for the signs of Christ’s coming.
- Those who seek their own life will lose it.
- Do not be overconfident in your standing with God.
- Christians are to contend for the faith that was once for all proclaimed.
- Christians are warned not to be deceived.
- Adding to or taking away from the book of Revelation brings judgment on those who do.
- The Sun and Moon will be darkened.
- When Christ returns, everyone will know it.
Again, a short list. If you have not done so already, please go back and read each reference in context.
It’s Not That Important, and Christians Should Not Debate About It
Funny, it seems to me that it is usually the pre-tribulationists that make that statement. I think this is primarily for 3 reasons. The first comes from the pre-tribulation teachers. Pre-tribulation teachers simply don’t want their position challenged so they retreat to the “It’s not that important,” position and this insulates pre-tribbers from having to defend their view, and it makes those that oppose them to appear petty or unspiritual in their attempts to refute pre-tribulationism.
Another reason is because many pre-tribulationists have simply accepted this doctrine based on what they have been taught and don’t want to make the effort to search the scriptures for themselves and test all things as the scripture commands. That is just laziness, pure and simple.
The third reason is because they’re afraid. Christians see all kinds of bad things happening in society and around the world. They recognize that things are more likely to get worse rather than better, and understand that the tribulation to come will be even worse. They don’t want to have to live through it or see their children live through it. The pre-trib rapture gives them an escape and they don’t want to let go of it regardless of all the evidence to the contrary.
Repentance
Anyone that is a true Christian has repented and continues to repent as God reveals His truth to them. Take this as a challenge. If you are defending a doctrine you know to be false, if you have been lazy with respect to knowing what God’s word teaches, or if you’re simply afraid and unwilling to stand up for Christ in midst of the tribulation and love not your own life even to the point of death (Revelation 12:11), then do the right thing and repent. The warnings are there for a reason and we ignore them at our own peril.
I still dont know the true answer. Both sides have a case, pretrib still sounds the most likely because of the Jewish wedding comparison etc.
But still: it doesn’t matter for 2 reasons,
1. If we die before the rapture (as with the overwhelming majority of believers throughout history), our souls go straight to heaven and we will be resurrected on earth when the time is right regardless
2. Lets say i am a pretribber, lets say I’m wrong and it’s actually posttrib, when the tribulation starts, i will realize “oh look, all the believers around me and around the globe did not disappear in the rapture, ok it’s gonna be posttrip then. I will just continue to live for Jesus and stay true to my Christian values, believe in Jesus and repent my sins”
3. Lets say im a posttribber and im wrong and it’s actually pretrib. Boom i will still get raptured and as soon as im raptured i will know “oh ok i was wrong. It was pretrib afterall, im here now..”
Of course it would be preferred to actually know the truth, of course it would be nice, of course that’s what Jesus would prefer.
But we are saved through faith, by believing that Jesus died for our sins, accepting him as our saviour. We just have to stay with that, our belief in the timing of the rapture does not influence this,
See you guys in heaven, whether it’s pre or post.
Hello Terb, Unfortunately, the scenario that you laid out is not based on what the Bible actually says. Consider what Jesus said in Matt 24:21.
Think about that for a minute. What is the greatest tribulation that Christians or Jews have experienced in history? How about the most recent events in the last 100 years. Obviously, we might think about the Holocaust and the Communist purges. Honestly, if you were going through that kind of tribulation, would you really just say to yourself, “oh look, all the believers around me and around the globe did not disappear in the rapture, ok it’s gonna be posttrip then. I will just continue to live for Jesus and stay true to my Christian values, believe in Jesus and repent my sins?” Really? If your family was being tortured in front of you and the oppressors said, “Deny Christ, swear allegiance to our leader and take his mark and all this will stop.” Would you really just say, “Oh, I guess it’s posttrib?” If you were on your way to the gas chamber, you would not be tempted to say, “there is no God?” Now imagine a time worse than that. America has been blessed as a country but now we have a generation of youth that are so morally confused that they don’t know the difference between male and female and are openly hostile to God’s standards of morality and hate anyone that holds to them. On top of that, we allow the murder of infants on a scale that makes the number of people who died Holocaust look like a rounding error. How can this nation escape God’s judgement and continue to enjoy peace and security? The very things that Paul warned would precede destruction. 1 Thess 5:3 “While they are saying, ‘Peace and safety!’ then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape”
Consider what Jesus says in Matt 24:9-13.
The end times will be characterized by spiritual deception, false prophets, and falling away from the faith. You said, “Of course it would be preferred to actually know the truth, of course it would be nice, of course that’s what Jesus would prefer.” I agree, that truth is in the scripture and if we fail to rightly divide it, we will be swept up in the apostasy as well.
“Is The Timing Of The Rapture Really That Important?”
If you had asked that question to any born-again believer during the last two millennia until around circa 1830; such a question would have been the SAME as asking “Is the timing of the Lord’s Second Coming really that important?”
Now, I don’t think any serious minded Christian would have asked such a daft question, do you? yet the Second Coming and the rapture are one and the same event!
One simply cannot be nonchalant about the timing of the Second Coming given all the Lord’s warnings, especially in Matthew 24. Is it a light thing to be deceived by false teaching? All sincere believers know that pre and post (and any theory in between) cannot both be right, one alone is the truth.
The full weight of NT Church history and all the great theologians in that period bear testimony to ONE Second Advent; how can it be that not one at any time saw a rapture before the Lord’s Second Coming?
One thing pre tribulationists need to remember is the great commission is to first and foremost point people to the gospel and salvation through Christ. Many people use prophecy to evangelize to unbelievers who want physical or visible proof. When we proclaim the gospel we plant a seed and rarely see immediate results. If a nonbeliever has in their head that when all the Christians disappear than I will see proof and then just get martyred and be saved you are actually hindering the gospel. We will all be here together until the end and all will be saved by faith and not works. Martyrdom when you have seen the hand of God is works not faith.
At first, I thought Sean Hayes comment, when he said “Martyrdom when you have seen the hand of God is works not faith.” made little sense. But after dwelling on it a moment, I realized that he is dead right! The Lord said “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign…” Matthew 12:39.
I’m not sure this is right place for this comment but I’ll jump off the thought of not knowing what’s true.
Colossians 3:16 (KJV) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
A biblical way of communicating truth is through hymns – this is the way heresy was initially introduced to the general public more than 1500 years ago. The pre-tribulation position is baked in to a lot of the hymns and worship music used today in churches.
I have spent past several months putting the Gadsby hymnal 1844 10th addition to music scores. Unbeknownst to me, the truths taught in these hymns systematically removed my reasons for holding to a pre-tribulation rapture position.
I didn’t read a single argument on this website- eventually after going the first 900 hymns I woke up one day and realized the pre-tribulation rapture does not have scriptural support. So I dropped it.
I have found through experience that there’s nothing like a good hymn book free of pre-tribulation rapture position to help me realize what’s true.
Thanks for pointing out what you believe to be true (no pretrib)
But regardless, I will be holding fast to my belief in a pretrib imminent rapture and living for the Lord and fully expecting Him every single day.
I believe that you have written an excellent little summary of the situation regarding pre-tribulationism.
The Church of Jesus Christ is either taken up before or after the great tribulation (unless you believe other fanciful unbiblical theories of late). There is absolutely NO middle ground for agreement on this, as much as we would all like to “agree to disagree.” You are so right to emphasize the Lord’s warnings against being deceived. It is interesting that you have found that it is predominantly the pre-trib teachers that are so quick to declare the oft repeated mantra “The timing of the rapture is unimportant and Christians should not argue about it! yet these self same ‘teachers’ will routinely and boldly proclaim from their pulpits “the rapture could happen before I finish preaching!” This hypocrisy should be exposed, for is that not what it is?
The pre-trib rapture theory is thoroughly unbiblical, and therefore emanates from the pit, where else?
God bless.
Hi everyone,
Another reason that I am pre-trib is due to what the Bible states about Michael the Archangel, the war in heaven, and the resurrection. We have a statement in Daniel 12 that says that Michael “stands up” or “arises” when there is a time of trouble such as never was or ever will be. Who is Michael standing up against and why is not stated in Daniel. But it is stated in Revelation 12. Daniel 12 parallels Revelation 12.
Daniel 12:1 says that at the time of the events of Daniel 11, “many that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.” This is the resurrection/Rapture. I think if one studies this deeply, it must be concluded that Michael stands up against Satan before the time of trouble, not after. This action by Michael against Satan is actually what triggers the tribulation of the saints and the Day of the Lord and Israel’s tribulation that follows. The war in heaven among the angels does not occur at Jesus’ Second Coming to earth, but years prior. If one reads Revelation 12 we should come to the same conclusion. In Rev.12 the war in heaven among Michael and Satan comes first, followed by the time of trouble, followed by the Second Coming.
One has to ask the important questions as to why Michael attacks Satan and his angels in heaven and when? Revelation 12 says that “the Dragon stood before the Woman to devour her Child as soon as it is born.” It is Michaels duty to prevent Satan/The Dragon from devouring the Manchild. Most think this scene applies to Jesus in Israel 2000 years ago. This is impossible. This scene in Rev. 12 takes place when the Dragon already has the ten horns of the last day empire of the Beast. Revelation says that those ten horns represent kings who rule one hour with the Beast. So the scene in Rev. 12 cannot be referring to the past, but only the future when the Beast is already in power and has his empire.
I believe that the Woman of Rev. 12 is not Israel, but the Church. (I’m not a believer in Replacement Theology, for Israel is a very important part of the Last Days and God’s future plans). But the Woman and the Manchild represents the Church. The great majority of Christians believe the Woman is Israel and the Manchild is Christ. If that is true, then a symbolic woman gives birth to a literal man. This is impossible in my view and poor exegesis.
What I believe the Bible is revealing to us in Revelation 12 is the time table of the Rapture/Resurrection of the Church and Satan’s attempt at preventing it. This is partly discussed in Daniel 12. Rev. 12 plainly states that the Manchild is “Caught up” to God and to His throne. I think we all recognize that term- Caught up, and who that applies to. Jesus was not caught up to heaven to escape the Devil. Jesus ascended slowly and victoriously without any opposition from Satan. There was no war in heaven when Christ ascended to heaven, or when he was resurrected, or when he was born. In Rev.12, the purpose for this war initiated by Michael is to allow the Manchild to be caught up to God, which Satan plans to prevent. When the Dragon sees he is cast down to the earth and failed to devour the Child, he immediately persecutes the Woman and the rest of her seed, those that keep the commandments of Jesus (a.k.a Christians). – Rev.12:17
Most assume that the Manchild is Christ because the Bible states that the Manchild will rule all nations with a rod of iron. But this is also said of the Church. Jesus said in Rev. 2:26,27 that the overcomers in the church will be given power over the nations and will rule them with a rod of iron. Therefore the Manchild could be Saints! Which makes more sense exegetically. You now have a symbolic woman giving birth to a symbolic child. The birth is a symbolic way of describing a resurrection. The Woman is a group of people (The visible church), and the Manchild (the invisible church) is a group of people. The Manchild is caught up (Raptured) to God’s throne exactly when Michael makes war against the Dragon. After the war and Satan and his angels are cast down, the persecution of the saints left behind begins.
In Daniel 12, we can now understand that those who sleep in the dust of the earth and awake occurs at the same time that Michael “stands up” and makes war with Satan. It is not until the New Testament that we find out that not only the dead in Christ awake, but those who are alive will be caught up as well. If this is correct, then Satan first attempts to prevent the resurrection/ Rapture and fails, so in his fury he persecutes those believers remaining on earth. Then years later, Satan/Antichrist attempts to prevent the Second Coming of Christ. The attempt to thwart the Rapture is shown in Rev. 12 and Satan is shown gathering all his angelic host to the earth for this attempt. Then in Rev. 19 Satan has drawn all the nations to Israel to fight the return of Christ.
The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols. We automatically know the Lamb is Christ. The other symbols are interpreted for us somewhere in the New Testament. In Revelation chapter 11 the two witnesses are said to be two olive trees and two candlesticks. We know these cannot be two men made of wood and metal. We find in Revelation 1:20 that “the candlesticks are the churches”. In Romans chapter 11, Paul describes the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together is as an “Olive Tree”. Therefore, the two witnesses can also be a symbol of the Church. Later in the chapter we find the witnesses killed for their faith but resurrected from the dead and taken up into heaven in a cloud. Most of the pretrib persuasion ignore this clear rapture event. In the same chapter we have the 7th trumpet, which is the “last trumpet” found in the Bible. At the 7th trump the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ “forever” in Revelation 11:15. In verse 18 we find the wrath of God and the time of the judgment of the dead. Many ignore this reference to the time of the judgment of the dead, because it destroys the chronology of the book. The book is not in chronological order. It is a series of overlapping visions given to the Apostle John. Tremendous confusion has been produced by forcing the book into a chronological straight jacket.
The beginning of Chapter 12 is a review of history with the fall of Satan and one third of the angels. It also contains the birth and death of the “man child” who is Christ, based on the 2nd Psalm. We also need to remember that Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt to avoid Herod’s attempt to kill the baby Jesus. Archeological evidence has recently revealed that Herod the Great died in 4 BC. Therefore, they were able to return within a few years of the child’s birth. This evidence also places the birth of Christ in 5 or 6 BC. Later in chapter 12 we find those under the Blood of the Lamb. This is a problem for Darby’s advocates because a person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant. At verse 12:12 we find that at least part of the tribulation period is the “wrath” of Satan.
The Second Coming is found in multiple passages of the book. We find at the end of chapter 6 those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. If we apply normal logic, the Lamb must be present on earth at this point. The Second Coming is also found in the “harvest” of chapter 14. In Revelation 16:15 He comes “as a thief” at Armageddon. We also find Him at the marriage supper in chapter 19. We must explain away or ignore these passages in order to get the book into chronological order. However, if they are taken as a series of overlapping visions describing the same event in different language, it makes perfect sense.
We have some of the same characters described in chapter 6 and chapter 19.
We find kings, mighty men, captains, bond and free in both passages below. Logically, we would assume these two passages to be a description of the same group of people.
Rev_6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev_19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
This is an example of the overlapping nature of the visions.
Hi I cannot work out if you are supporting pre-trib or post-trib
John 14:3 is completely negated if anyone believes in anything other than pre – trib belief.
Here is what John 14:3 says: “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” Nothing in this verse says that Jesus is coming back twice, nothing in this verse says that rapture happens before the tribulation, nothing in this verse exempts Christians from going through the tribulation. In no way does this verse invalidate a posttrib rapture. So how do you explain your contention this verse negates anything other than a pretrib rapture?
That scripture does not suggest when Jesus is coming back to take us home.
I like to refer to the pre-trib rapture as the 1.5 coming of the Lord, since they argue that the 2nd coming is an entirely different rapture. They try to say those verses are not referring to the secret rapture because it is not a full fledged coming but only a secret snatching away of believers, since Jesus never touched down on the earth. To which I practically beg them please please show me in the word where this is described in detail just as you explained it. I usually don’t hear much from them after that. 🙂
When Paul wrote the letter to the Thessalonian church there were no verses or chapters in the text. They were added much later.
Will we find a 7 year stay in heaven within the passage most often used to promote a Pre-Trib removal of the Church?
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(The word “sleep” is a metaphor describing the dead in Christ.)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(The word “descend” means to come down.)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
(The word “But” connects chapter 5 to chapter 4.)
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
(We also find the “day of the Lord” when He “comes as a thief” in 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15, which are clearly Second Coming passages. Therefore, this verse provides the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4.)
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
(It will not overtake us as a thief.)
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
(Dispensationalists often claim the tribulation period is “the wrath of God”, even though the Greek words translated as “tribulation” and “wrath” are not the same, and Revelation 12:12 shows at least some of the period to be the wrath of Satan.)
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
(The metaphor “sleep” in this verse proves that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4 by using the same metaphor for the dead in Christ .)
The previous verses show the Apostle Paul gave a description of the event at the end of chapter 4 and the timing of the event in chapter 5.
No seven year stay in heaven can be found within this text. It must be imported from another passage.
Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural. Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest.
“It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view.”
Tim LaHaye, “Rapture Under Attack”, page 197, Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998
Thomas, that is a novel idea. To avoid admitting that pre-tribulationism by definition requires there to be 2 future comings of Christ, you offer a compromise of 1.5 comings. When it comes to the Lord supposedly not touching down, you are making an argument from silence. If I were flying in an airplane that was due to touch down in your city and sent you a text saying “the plane is descending,” would it be logical to conclude that since my text message did not say, “I’m preparing to land in your city,” that I really mean I’m not landing? That in effect is what you are saying when you misinterpret second coming passages for a pretrib rapture. Historically Christians have been looking for a singular return of Christ. The burden of proof is on you and your fellow pretrib believers to prove that Jesus will return twice or in your case 1.5 times.
Pretrib has one pillar holding it up and only one, dispensationalism. I suggest reading the following article.
http://www.regal-network.com/dispensationalism
Dispensationalism is the twin sister of replacement theology. Though much more subtle than her sister, dispensationalism accomplished the same agenda in causing New testament saints to boast against the natural branches and deny Israel of the promises given her. Both were born of Jesuit minds and the antichrist Roman Catholic system.
Dispensationalism is the only predisposition that is considered mandatory before exploring scripture concerning end times. It is absolutely impossible to find any support for a pretrib rapture without it.
Dispensationalism gives license to blasphemously reject scripture in exchange for the most absurd assumptions: that the last trump is not the last trump Matt24:31; that the first resurrection is not the first resurrection Rev 20:4-5; that the tribulation saints are not worthy to claim God’s promise that we are not appointed to wrath; that those same saints are not part of the body of Christ I Cor 12:13; that the remnant of Israel are not part of the bride of Christ Jer 3:14, Isa 54; and that the antichrist will be exalted within the day of the LORD Isa 2:11-17.
It’s vital to know the truth concerning Christ’s return because the pretrib position sets the believer up just like the seed that was sown among stony ground. They received the word with joy and even grew; however when persecution arose for the word’s sake, they were offended and fell away. This is the same falling away that Paul warns us about.
I’m not advertising my fb blog, but in it, I have a study entitled, “Hold Fast.” One of the reasons that pretribbers do not want to hear anything else is the subject of eternal security in regards to the mark of the beast. I address this in my study. Many will fall away. Christ promised if we endure, our names would not be blotted out of the book of life.
https://m.facebook.com/bytheblood.pd/
In ancient times the watchman on the wall would blow the trumpet when he saw the ruler returning to the city. Many of those who loved the ruler would rush out to meet him and accompany him back home. The Greek word is “Parousia”. It is a picture of what has come to be known as the “rapture”.
The Rapture…
An analogy…
The mother and daughter sat on the front porch of their house shelling peas from their garden. Both worked quietly. There had been great sadness in the home for several weeks. It all started when their pastor came to the door with the tragic news that the husband and the father had been killed at Gettysburg. She knew her husband had fought for years in this great war that had torn the nation in half. Although it should not have been a total surprise she found herself screaming, No…, No…, No…., for what seemed like hours and then days.
The pastor had told her the husband was buried at the site of the battle and it would not be possible to visit the grave at the present time.
After several days and the comfort brought to her by her neighbors and family she had tried to resume the chores required to keep her family going.
She had spent many hours in prayer and tears since that tragic day.
Their home was located along the road that led into town. At times during the dry times of summer the dust from the dirt road covered the front porch.
The peas which came from their own garden were a tremendous blessing. They were planning to cook them for supper that night.
As the woman and her daughter worked quietly, the silence was broken when the woman said…
“Honey, that man coming here walks like your daddy.”
The girl never looked up, as she thought about the man she loved so much, that was now dead.
A few minutes later the woman said…
“Honey, that man coming down the road, looks like your daddy.”
The girl looked up from the pot of peas and strained her eyes toward the road.
Another couple of minutes went by and her mother screamed…
That man is your daddy!
(Mistakes had been made in the identification of some dead soldiers.)
Now do you think the woman and the girl just sat on that porch and waited for the one they loved to walk up to their house?
or…
Do you think the bond of love between them made them rush toward their loved one?
And so it shall be when He returns.
When the One who bought us with His Blood returns, we will be changed in such a way that the force of gravity will not be able to keep us from going to Him and accompanying Him back to earth.
The Greek word “Parousia” refers to His Coming, which is His return.
See you there, Brothers and Sisters…
Couldn’t hold me back. Chills ran thru me just at the thought of running to greet our Savior and Lord and accompanying him to earth.
Most New Testament believers ignore God’s prophetic calendar for the redemption of mankind, thinking that the feasts and appointed times were for Israel, though they are, and will be, fulfilled entirely in the New Testament context demonstrating one and only ONE covenant of redemption. The pre-trib “rapture” is an extension of the doctrine of dual covenants of redemption, one for national ethnic Israel, and one for spiritual Israel, the church. As Spurgeon put it succinctly: “Israel in the covenant of grace is not natural Israel, but all Believers in all ages.” And the timing and sequence of events for the fulfillment of this one and only covenant of redemption are fully demonstrated in the appointed times and feasts of the Lord with NO POSSIBILITY of a pre-trib “rapture” of church only saints followed at some point by a general resurrection of all other saints.
I agree with you for the most part in that there is one covenant of redemption for all ages, and that is through faith in God through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus our Messiah. So that as Paul said there is no distinction between Jew and non-Jew in Christ. However if you are advocating replacement theology whereby the Church is now Israel, and that nation and people of Israel (the Jews) have no future in prophecy. That I would strongly disagree with.
The fact that we have people who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, mid-tribulation rapture, and a post-tribulation rapture shows that there are scriptures supporting all three positions. I actually had a pastor tell me that the rapture didn’t exist in the scriptures, and Jesus was never going to return to earth as he promised.
I have never said that it is not that important, and I believe in a pre-trib rapture. I did my own bible study on the issue many years ago to find out for myself what the bible actually says, so it is not laziness that drives my belief, it is the whole word of God. You would do well to consider that end times events are purposefully not laid out in any chronological order, in order that we would be ready no matter what happens.
Your post showed up on my news feed, so I wanted to read what you had to say. I hope that you take my comments in the spirit in which they were intended, to share that others who do not believe as you do are still your brothers and sisters in Christ, not to be shamed and ridiculed.
Thank you for your comments Mark. This blog is intended to be written in the same spirit as your comment. It is not intended to be a platform of shame or ridicule, and I count most pre-tribulationists as brothers and sisters. However the feeling is not always mutual, as the criticism that I receive for taking this position is often hateful and vitriolic. I respectfully disagree with your position on pre-tribulationism, and I’m not going to be silent about it regardless of how I may be perceived.
The simplest way to destroy the pre-trib rapture doctrine is to quote Jesus statement in Matthew 24:29-31 “IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Foundational to this error is the belief that there is a “Gentile Church” whose fate is entirely separate from the Jews. But the scriptures clearly contradict this: Eph. 2:11-16 “Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who HAS MADE US BOTH ONE and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself ONE NEW MAN in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God IN ONE BODY through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.”
Hello Mr. England,
and to whom it may concern,
I don’t know if you are still around or not, but I don’t think your Scripture verses destroys the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. Jesus spoke of two tribulations in the Olivet Discourse. Jesus does not always speak to the same people or to the same time period in the Olivet Discourse. Not only does Jesus speak of two tribulations, but he speaks of two groups of people who are to endure great tribulation (saints and Israelites). They don’t occur at the same time.
Jesus also speaks of two comings as well. Jesus speaks of a coming before the tribulation of the saints, “when you think not.” This occurs when there is no world-wide tribulation occurring. It comes when people are saying “peace and safety.” Many will be “walking after their own lusts” and many will mock the return of Christ because it won’t happen when all were predicting it would. It will be a very prosperous time and many believers will be “rich and in need of nothing.” This is why we must stay awake because it will happen when times are good, at least economically. Some will think like the servant that says, “My Lord delays his coming,” and then starts living wickedly. The Rapture will take him by surprise and he will be left.
Jesus speaks about the tribulation of the Jews when the Abomination of Desolation occurs. That event is the signal to the Jews to flee Jerusalem. When that particular tribulation is over, Christ will return. If Jesus only spoke of one coming, then all we have to do is watch for the Abomination and know that His return is 3 and 1/2 years from that time of tribulation. So how could His coming take us by surprise and “in an hour we think not” when all we need to do is wait and watch for all the horrific judgments of Revelation and lastly, for Armageddon to take place? Plus, the Bible tells us that the Antichrist will have essentially wiped out the Church by then.
There are also at least two sets of false prophets and false Christ’s in the Olivet Discourse. Each will have a message for each time period. The first set of false prophets preach “the time draws near.” These prophets come before the tribulation, but it is a time of wars and rumors of wars (similar to today). Then Jesus spoke of people in the tribulation of the Jews who claim that Christ has already returned, and that “He is in the desert or in some secret chamber.” These false prophets falsely claim this because there are people who are expecting His coming and hoping for the end of the trouble. But Jesus is saying to those particular people that His coming will be very visible and unmistakeable when it occurs because He will come quite openly and incredibly, like lightning flashing across the sky, and every eye will see Him. This is in contrast to the other coming, which occurs in the twinkling of an eye and when few are expecting it and there is no time “to see it”. If you are not ready when it occurs, it is too late. You will be left behind.
There is no mention of a Rapture or Resurrection in those verses you quoted. Jesus mentions a tribulation of the saints because they are Christians. Jesus mentions the tribulation of Israel that comes later, because Antichrist is attempting to take over Israel and to annihilate the Jews, and Jesus tells those in Judea to flee Jerusalem. Then, after the tribulation of those days (Israel’s tribulation, not the saints), the sign of Christ returning openly in the clouds occurs. Jesus doesn’t mention any resurrection occurring then. To be honest, He doesn’t specifically mention a resurrection at all in the Olivet Discourse.
J. Sebastian, Jesus does not speak of two tribulations, two groups of people, or two comings in the Olivet discourse. In answer to your rhetorical question about what some interpret as two comings, you partly answer it yourself but come to the wrong conclusion. Jesus comes as a thief to those who are not looking for Him and are living in sin. It’s not two comings, it’s two groups of people, the wise and the foolish. To twist that into two comings puts one in the foolish category. I hope you don’t take my directness as a slight. My intention is to lead the reader to truth in love. Sometimes it may not come across that way.
Hi Mr. Pruitt,
The Bible, and Jesus in the Olivet Discourse, clearly speaks of a Jewish tribulation. It is 42 months long. It begins with the Abomination of Desolation at the temple. It leads right up to the Second Coming of Christ. The Bible, and Jesus in the Olivet Discourse, also tells us of a tribulation of the saints (they are “hated for His names sake” -Matt. 24:9, proving that they are Christians). These are from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. This tribulation is the same length of time, but does not overlap with Israel’s tribulation. In that sense, there are definitely two separate periods of tribulation and two groups of people.
The Antichrist first focuses on getting rid of the saints from around the whole world during the “breaking of the Seals”. This great multitude of martyrs, which no man could number, are seen in heaven complaining to God and asking Him why He hasn’t judged the earth for what they did to them- Rev.6:10. This is evidence that the Trumpet and Vial judgments (God’s full wrath) have not occurred yet. The martyrs are told to rest a little longer until the rest of the saints are killed – Rev 6:11. When this particular 3 and 1/2 years is over, and all the saints who are still to be killed are eventually killed, then the 7th seal is broken and the Trumpet and Vial judgment commences, and the martyrs are avenged. And it is in this later period (Trumpet and Vials) that Israel has its tribulation. Only the 144,000 are guaranteed to make it through to the coming of Christ.
Yes, there will be Jewish believers among the great multitude of martyrs that is part of the Church. But that does not negate that the nation of Israel has its own tribulation later, separate from the saints.
The only way that the Olivet Discourse makes any sense, is that Jesus is speaking of two comings. Jesus is stating that if you aren’t ready for His coming (pre-trib), you will be left on earth to endure the tribulation. It is not the other way around, as you suggest. That is the message of the parable of the ten virgins. 5 of the 10 virgins were not prepared for the grooms coming, because of the apparent delay. Because they were not properly prepared, they were left out. They wanted to go with the groom, but it was too late. The 5 wise virgins were prepared and went to be with the groom.
The meaning of the parable according to Jesus, is “watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the son of man cometh.” – Matthew 25:13. This could not be referring to His Second Coming to earth. Let’s say you are right, and it is the Second Coming. Let me ask you, if it is referring to the Second Coming, then what harm is there for the 5 foolish virgins that were not taken to be with the bridegroom? Jesus is coming down anyway to set up His Kingdom.
Mr Sebastian, The problem here is that you are imposing your presupposition of pre-tribulationism on the text. You Start with pre-tribulationism and then interpret scripture to agree with your premise. This type of interpretation is called eisegesis, as opposed to exegesis in which you start with scripture first. If you start with scripture reading the Olivet discourse there is no way any reasonable person would come up with two tribulations, two second comings and two classes of saints. Throw out your premise and just stick with the text.
I agree with Scott.
The idea that scripture must be sculpted to support a double visitation is based on the stringent preconceived mandate of dispensationalism. That mandate is the sister doctrine to replacement theology, separating the promised remnant of physical Israel from the bride of Christ.
Jeremiah 3:14 KJV
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord ; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
I don’t believe in Replacement Theology. When Israel endures its tribulation, they are not “saints.” Only the 144,000 are known to be believers after the 7th Seal opens and the 144,000 are sealed to protect them from.the plagues. Will there be other Jewish believers too? Yes. But the majority of Israelis will not be Christians during this time.
Jesus speaks to Christians around the world who are persecuted in one section of the Olivet Discourse, and then He speaks to those who dwell in Israel at the time they will see the Abomination set up, and he warns them to flee.
This isn’t me making up my own premise. Clearly Jesus specifically mentions Israel’s tribulation. And he clearly mentions Christians who will be persecuted for believing in Christ. They’re persecution is not for the same reasons.
If you study the book of Revelation, you see two different periods of tribulations too. One involves Christians from every tribe, tongue, nation and people. The other involves Israel, when Jerusalem is trodden down by the Gentiles for 42 months.
Please answer what harm comes to those who, like the five foolish virgins, are not ready for the second coming, but do actually believe in the return of Christ.
I meant to say “Their persecution is not for the same reasons.”
Not “they’re”.
Amen brother!
We are always having to defend our beliefs, and I wholeheartedly believe as you do.
Thanks for sharing
Jude 3 says believers are to “earnestly contend (fight) for ‘the faith.'” “The faith” is the doctrine of Christ…who He is is and what He’s done…His Person and His Work. If a person is wrong about either of these, he is wrong eternally. The doctrine of the Second Coming, like the doctrine of tongues, or healing, or infant baptism, etc. is not what we are to “contend” over. I do believe the majority of true believers have been misled on the Rapture, but it is not something that is essential to their eternal salvation…only the shaking of their faith, perhaps. The Lord Jesus surprised most of the “theologians” the first time He came and I believe He will also the second.
Hi Jeff, I agree with you in part. The doctrine of Christ begins with His person and work, but it also includes His teachings and the teachings of the Apostles. We are to contend for all of the faith. If you go back and read Jude, he is not just dealing with the person and work of Christ, but also the errors of turning grace into a license, unbelief, immorality, reviling authority, jealousy, greed, rebellion, selfishness, grumbling, fault-finding, pridefullness, flattering for advantage, mocking, and worldly-mindedness among others. These are some of the things Jude said we should look out for. Based on that rather broad description of what happens when you don’t contend for the faith, I believe I’m on solid ground in telling people they should be aware of what the Bible teaches about the last days especially since we are 2000 years closer to the blessed hope than the Apostles were.
Actually I am post trib, and I also tell people that we need not debateit always end in ill fillings. No need to bicker about it amongst fellow believers when the people outside of God are going to Hell on a hand rail. Keep your priorities and however it turns out will be fine with God in it!
Bickering is wrong, but contending for the faith is a command.
After I reread my post it occurred to me my awful command of the English Language LOL. Anyways I certainly agree there are things that need to be clarified in the Bible but per mid or post trib, is really not one of them
Wow, just caught another one. I meant “ye shall be hated” not yes shall be hated. Sorry to all who have to endure my sloppy post.
Scott, thanks again for a terrific article. One thing I find interesting is the way pre-trib believers twist the term saints to fit their belief. We all agree through Paul’s writings that a saint is a believer. When denial says the Antichrist makes war on the saints the pre tribber says that he is referring to Jews. However the Revelation given by John says the Antichrist makes war on the saints. The revelation was given post Acts so obviously is given to all believers. Scripture does not violate itself so obviously Christians are persecuted by the Antichrist.
And yes shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake. But he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek for the same Lord over all is rich unto all who call upon him. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Thanks Sean. I appreciate your comments!
Thanks Scott. God bless your service to the Lord.
I just reread my post. I meant to say the prohet Danial. I am using my new tablet and it keeps changing what I wrote to what it thinks I wanted to say. It’s a learning process. I just need to proofread better before posting.