I became a Christian in 1985 at the age of 21. My initial exposure to Christianity was through a Church that was a proponent of the “faith movement”. I had been a Christian for a little over a year and had been studying other religions and purchased the late Dr Walter Martin’s book, “The Kingdom of the Cults.” I was not aware at the time that the faith movement was also unbiblical. I had heard of Dave’s book “The Seduction of Christianity” but had not read it. I was warned by people in my Church saying that reading it would wreck my faith. By God’s providence there was someone in my Church that I found reading Seduction, so I asked him, “Is it ruining your faith?” He said, “No, just the opposite. I think a lot of the things we are being taught are wrong, but my faith in God is stronger now than it ever was.”
I decided to read the book for myself. What an eye opener! It was hard for my pride to allow me to admit I had been deceived by some of the things Dave mentioned in his book. God used that to help me to lead others out of that movement and to educate other Christians about these destructive teachings. Over the following years I’ve had the opportunity to meet Dave and hear him speak publicly on at least 5 occasions in the southern California area.
I have read Dave’s other books and even taught classes from “The Cult Explosion” study guide since then. If Dave Hunt has taught me anything, it is to be a Berean. Dave mentioned it everywhere I heard him speak. He would always say, “To the Law and to the Testimony! If they speak not according to these words, there is no light in them,” and “Test all thing and hold fast to what is true.”
Thank you Dave for answering the call. My life and the lives of countless others have been touched in ways you could never know.
P.S. Those that know Dave Hunt also know that he was an ardent pre-tribulationist. Men of good will may disagree, but we both know our Lord and both believe in earnestly contending for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
Hi Scott, Thank you for your website. In my family, I’m surrounded by pre-tribulation adherents who hang on every word by Dr. XXX and Dr. XXX and listen to “Olive Tree…” etc. I’ve been post-trib for decades simply by reading the Bible and am convinced that you have to be taught by someone else to be pre-trib. I’m also convinced that the pre-trib view leads into the great apostasy. Recently I wrote a short work that could be titled “What Would Satan Do?” (based on the saying a few years back; “What Would Jesus Do?”). I can’t share it with family, since they would scold me to tears. In this document, I propose that Satan would much rather have pre-tribulation teaching than any other eschatological view. I think Satan loves hearing the ‘escape guarantee’ from the books and pulpit, every time it’s preached. He must know by now, that the “escape mentality” brings about apathy in some. Christians.
My go-to verses are a comparison of the following three;
Eph. 4:30 “Do not grieve the Holy Spirt by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
Ro. 8: 23 “And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.”
But when will our bodies be redeemed?
Lk. 21:25-28 “…. your redemption is drawing near…” In context, this is after the signs in the sun, moon, etc. (Post-trib).
All to say, the Holy Spirit “residing in the church” can’t be the restrainer, since He’s sealing people until the day of redemption of our bodies. A child could put this together. Yet, the American church has be lead astray with Dispensationalist teaching.
A pastor relative of mine (now deceased), made the following statement (and I quote); “I’m a dispensationalist, I’ve always been a dispensationalist and I’ll always be a dispensationalist.” This same pastor would un-invite me to attend adult Sunday School at his church, to prevent anyone from offering a different view. That’s how much the pre-trib view is protected. There’s no question that the gospel was taught from the pulpit in this church. But everyone was nodding in agreement when this was taught. In any discussion (of which there were very few), there were the same ‘catch phrases’ that ‘proved pre-trib.’ It seems impossible at times to get anyone to listen to what the Bible says, since “Dr. XXX already told me to believe something else.”
As I’m sure you’re aware, Dr. Walter Martin used verses from John 6; where multiple times Jesus said about being raised up On The Last Day. In John 11, Martha got it right by repeating this; in v. 24 she said that the resurrection would happen on the LAST DAY. Jesus didn’t correct her by saying; “actually, Martha, I don’t want you to be mislead; The resurrection will be 7 years prior to the last day.”
Besides the verses, there’s Rev. 20 and others which are NEVER quoted by the pre-trib preachers. Instead they use, what I would call “slight of hand” to rake in millions. I know that we all have failings, but, I’m sorry; I wonder what the Lord will say to those who have preached the Word of God, lead many to Christ, and forgot what Rev. 22; 19-19 says about adding to the Word of God.
My biggest issue is when I hear from the pulpit; “Tell your family, friends and neighbors to get saved today SO THAT THEY WILL ESCAPE THE TRIBULATION!” I almost walked out one time when I heard that taught at the end of a passage, when the pastor was preaching through Revelation. The reason to be saved today is to serve Christ, not escape.
So much more to say, but I do appreciate your site and plan to return often.
If you want to read my “deception” article, let me know.
Peace to you in Christ.
Captain John
I couldn’t agree more with this:
Hi Scott!
The Lord saved me in 1977, and in 1980 I got hooked on the Word of Faith by Ken Copeland. About 2.5 years later, I left my Baptist church for a 2,000 member Word of Faith church. During that decade, I bought all of Copeland’s cassette tape series, books and Bible (I even applied to work for him), and all of Hagin’s tapes and book, and tapes and books by Capps, Savelle, Fred Price, John Osteen, Norvel Hayes, T. L. Osborn, E. W. Kenyon, and a mishmash of others. At the church, I quickly got involved in their audio-visual (like you), and even landed a position on staff. In 1988, the Lord used the church secretary to show me a new book (she was always coming up with something new) that she had read and loaned to the senior pastor’s wife, who had chocked it full of notes against the author’s assertions and evidence. She showed me the notes. Well, any book that would tick off the senior pastor’s wife that much, I had to have, lol. So, I purchased a copy at my local Zondervan (those were the days) and began to read it. With my extensive knowledge of the scriptures (yes, I did read and study them, unlike some claim against WoF followers) and what all the Word of Faith teachers taught, I knew the author’s assertions were correct. His book led me out of the Word of Faith! D. R. McConnell’s “A Different Gospel.”
As for my post-trib rapture belief, I became settled on it around 1984. I was first pre-trib, but over time I kept things that, try as I may, I just couldn’t reconcile with a pre-trib rapture. Then one day in 82 or 83, I heard a man (Jim McKeever?) on the 700Club talking about the post-trib rapture. I bought his book and read it, but I threw it away after I again saw him on the 700Club advocating “prepping” to survive the tribulation (he sold prepping products). My immediate thought was, no one can store away products to “survive” the 7 years of tribulation, for the simple fact that once the mark of the beast is made a requirement to buy or sell, no Christian will be able to keep their property, because they won’t be able to pay property taxes–duh! So, I kept studying the scriptures on the rapture, and waffled back and for several times before I settled on post-trib. But I kept an open mind for the next 30 years, during which I only read pre-trib books. Just weeks ago, I purchased my first post-trib book from 1962 (J. Barton Payne’s, The Imminent Appearing of Christ) which was referenced in a pre-trib’s quote, who said this author agreed with the imminent return of Christ (but as you read his book, which is about the eschatology of the early church fathers, you’ll quickly find that that assumption is pure fiction, to make you think a post-trib agreed with the pre-trib idea of imminency). I’ve been mocked, shunned, and called demon-possessed, an apostate, and worse (which I won’t mention on here). But I’m still post-trib, even though in all this time, I’ve known only one brother who was also post-trib, whom I met at my cousin’s church in another state. He was studying for the ministry in the Assembly of God. The next time I met him, I asked him in her AoG church if he were still post-trib, and he was afraid the pastor heard me. He sheepishly said, no, that he was now pre-trib. But I knew he was lying to protect his status in the AoG, which disturbed me. I will NEVER deny what I believe just to satisfy others. Let the chips fall where they may. Needless to say, all my churches have been pre-trib. But I don’t try to force my opinions on anyone. If I’m asked, I will tell them. Usually, they just mock with, “Well, you can go through the tribulation if you want to, but I’m going in the pre-trib rapture, ha, ha” and then they quickly walk away, like they’re afraid to talk with me. Over the years, I have learned a lot. The Lord has been gracious in opening my eyes to many things in this regard. I can debate this issue with the best of them because I know the weaknesses of the pre-trib rapture, which they (the “experts”) themselves also know but never tell anybody. Their m.o. is to use “sleight-of-mouth” by diverting their hearers and readers away from the scriptures that expose their weaknesses. No pre-trib ever asks the “hard” questions, because they are “conditioned” to believe everything they say. Truth always stands up to the harshest of tests, as the scripture itself testifies (His word is tried seven times as in a furnace of fire).
One thing I am disappointed with is this “fight” in the church against “brethren”, and the trashing and name calling, just to turn their followers against whom they don’t like. LaHaye and Ice’s Pre-Trib Research Center was designed for one purpose only, to trash the post-trib position and those who advocate it. There’s a lot of unhealthy baggage in LaHaye’s background for the researcher. But his book The Rapture, in my opinion, was the first to raise this fight to an obnoxious and hurtful level, in which he oft claimed that post-tribs were “attackers” of the pre-trib position. He said this to “prejudice” his readers against post-tribs, so he and his buddy pre-trib authors could keep their customer base ($$$). And since his passing, Tommy arrogantly continues to inflame the war. If we truly are “attackers”, how is it we have never had a Post-Trib Research Center?? All one has to do is read the actual writings of the ante-nicene fathers (the first 200 years after the death of John), and he will quickly realize that the disciples of the apostles unequivocally believed in a post-trib resurrection/rapture of the Church, and that it would suffer the tribulation under Antichrist. But Darby himself stated in his “The Hopes of the Church of God”: “If we study the history of the Church, we shall find it to have declined in sprituality exactly in proportion as this doctrine of the EXPECTATION of the Saviour’s return (meaning, the pre-trib rapture) had been LOST SIGHT OF. In FORGETTING THIS TRUTH it has become weak and worldly. That the Church, like the ten virgins, “slept and FORGOT THE IMMEDIATE RETURN OF CHRIST…” And, “We can understand…to what degree the church has PUT AWAY THE HOPE which occupied the souls of the first converts (he never mentions what the early church fathers advocated, who were taught by the disciples of the apostles and the elders who knew and heard them); HOW FAR DISTANT WE ARE FROM THE APOSTOLIC VIEWS…” Here is a clear example that Darby was indeed the originator the pre-trib rapture doctrine, because he claimed the church “lost” this belief after the apostolic era of the first century. If the claims of Tommy Ice, Lee Brainard, and others were true, that the pre-trib rapture was maintained throughout church history, then why didn’t Darby acknowledge that “fact” instead of touting that the Church had forgotten it? He never mentioned the names of any pre-trib advocates prior to himself all the way back to the apostles. Darby was indeed the doctrine’s originator. Should one read about him by those who were once his fellow companions in the ministry, and what they had to say about Darby and the “brethren” and a number of their false doctrines, they will come away with a completely different view as to the validity of his reasonings.
Again, I stress, we should not “strive” AGAINST one another, but walk in meekness and lowliness of heart in love to our brethren, regardless of their position on the rapture. Let us turn from a war against pre-tribs and post-tribs to a war against the age-old human (soul) trafficker, the devil, and deliver his trophies from his wretched hands.
Hello Larry, It was nice to hear from you! I have a similar background and history. I too read D. R. McConnell’s “A Different Gospel,” and thought it was a good read. It was subsequent to my own rejection of the Word Faith movement into which I was strongly indoctrinated early on. “The Seduction of Christianity,” was the catalyst that led me out of it. I agree with your assessment of Tommy Ice and the Pre-Trib Research Center.
I love Hunt’s book “Yoga and the Body of Christ”. Many Christians have no idea that yoga is a Hindu spiritual practice. Even if they are made aware of this, many make the excuse that they only do it for the physical exercise and that they don’t accept the spiritual aspects of yoga. They claim they have benefited from yoga, so how can it be all bad? His book shows the truth about yoga and that all Christians should repent and flee from this pagan practice.
Bro. Scott,
Thank you for this website. It is truly a breath of fresh air.
I was born again in 1972 and became a student of the scriptures.
I was raised in a baptist church from a child and understood the rapture fully, before 1972.
However, I was introduced to another concept from my pastor at the time, he was doing a study on the 2nd coming and covered the
topic from scripture and history (one reference he used was The Blessed Hope by George E. Ladd) It changed my life. After that
study I became a Berean. I wanted to know, and have been at it
ever since.
I have defended the Post tribulation (historical) view from that time forward to today. During that time to the present I graduated from an independent bible school and seminary, pastored, done mission work, evangelist and bible teacher.
That is a basic background. What has been encountered is quite telling, I have been reprimanded in private by pastors and evangelists, Rebuked in public meeting and called heretic, verbally abused in church foyer, and physically attacked for
the stance against the rapture. This doctrine, whether, pre-trib-mid-trib or pre-wrath is explosive and demonic at its roots.
Dare You rupture the rapture? yep.
I recently had a round with a pastor who got upset, He would not
discuss any other view, was adamant he would not talk about it,
stated that this was a “minor” issue that we should live for christ. (that true). When sharing scripture with him the encounter was quite interesting almost as if a robot was talking.
Keep up the good work, don’t compromise. Lord willing the truth will come to light I am with you in this endeavor.
Oh by the way 2 new book are out by John Shorey, He says he has had new reveation and the church will be raptured in the middle of the tribulation. The rest is the old rapture redefined.
Christs blessings on you.